Why are discussions about Rosetta taking place on other boards?
Message boards : Number crunching : Why are discussions about Rosetta taking place on other boards?
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Jose Send message Joined: 28 Mar 06 Posts: 820 Credit: 48,297 RAC: 0 |
There is one group of people: those who are so inspired by what is possible that they will not let the little conversations get in their way of contributing to the project. Nice mantra: but it is a liitle too late. Btw I am not encouraging any one not to participate. There are very dear members of my team that will continue to participate and since I believe in free agency I will respect their call and they will still be considered my dear friends. Okies : I did make a small , tiny joke regarding using Vooddoo dolls and pins in certain parts of their bodies :) But that said: I lost my desire. I wont crunch. Promising as the science is, there are times that personal honor has to take presendence. That is why I amnot participating anymore. That is why I cannot work with the members of Group one: I dont like them . Worst, I dont trust them. The first part can be easilly solved as, in my life, I have had very productive relationships with people I have disliked to no end. I have never been able to work with people I don't trust. You dont earn my trust by calling me and mine cheats. It is as simple as that. |
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Ethan Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Aug 05 Posts: 286 Credit: 9,304,700 RAC: 0 |
Another post from DB on his journal: A couple more things: First, I will be describing all of your efforts at a conference on Monday on grid computing: http://www.opensciencegrid.org/events/meetings/consmeeting0806/agenda.html. (should I show some excerpts from the message boards?). I will of course describe the great work you have all done together. Second, To answer a question which came up on the boards--we will NOT be backdating credit totals. The new system will go into place early next week, adding on to the current totals. Again, I thank you all for your efforts and the many people who have volunteered to help recently! |
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Jose Send message Joined: 28 Mar 06 Posts: 820 Credit: 48,297 RAC: 0 |
Another post from DB on his journal: I just hope that the lunch boxes they will be served have tastier food that the one I was "fed" in all the semminars on compliance auditing I went to while I worked. |
 carl.h Send message Joined: 28 Dec 05 Posts: 555 Credit: 183,449 RAC: 0 |
Edited ;-) Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-) Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM. |
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Ethan Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Aug 05 Posts: 286 Credit: 9,304,700 RAC: 0 |
Saenger, please post in the correct forums. This thread was about DB communication. . the impact of his comments should be discussed elsewhere. |
Saenger Send message Joined: 19 Sep 05 Posts: 271 Credit: 824,883 RAC: 0 |
Saenger, please post in the correct forums. This thread was about DB communication. . the impact of his comments should be discussed elsewhere. Where is this "correct forum"? And why was I singled out, and not Jose? |
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Ethan Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Aug 05 Posts: 286 Credit: 9,304,700 RAC: 0 |
Saenger, please post in the correct forums. This thread was about DB communication. . the impact of his comments should be discussed elsewhere. I'm not going to go looking for their ID's, but there have been threads on both the client credit claims and retroactive credit leveling. Jose seems to be talking about the impact of not hearing anything from the baker lab, and the lack of moderation. . which fits with this topic. But now I'm getting out of the explanation game. . it's a slippery slope and I'm already spending a lot of time here. |
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Saenger Send message Joined: 19 Sep 05 Posts: 271 Credit: 824,883 RAC: 0 |
Saenger, please post in the correct forums. This thread was about DB communication. . the impact of his comments should be discussed elsewhere. Please ask Fuzzy if she thinks this is not good for her thread. |
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Johnathon Send message Joined: 5 Nov 05 Posts: 120 Credit: 138,226 RAC: 0 |
Saenger - At the end of the day It is Ethans decision. He is a Mod, and an Admin - he sets the rules. Thankyou for posting here Dr Baker. I must admit, i also was extreemly worried when I heard that you had been posting on XS's forums, about matters dirrectly relating to these boards. And sociology is not a fun subject at times (although these boards would make an interesting case study, says one who has studied sociology.) |
John McLeod VII Send message Joined: 17 Sep 05 Posts: 108 Credit: 195,137 RAC: 0 |
(although these boards would make an interesting case study, says one who has studied sociology.) Erk.   BOINC WIKI |
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Ethan Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Aug 05 Posts: 286 Credit: 9,304,700 RAC: 0 |
The following is from Kevint: I'm sorry to have created even more problems in efforts to calm things down!! I understand your efforts in trying to calm things down and personally see nothing wrong with what you have done. The project Dev's have any right to post anything they want on any open message board. Rosetta is a great project and I will be back crunching once the credit issues are worked out, and our SIMAP race is completed. |
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Jose Send message Joined: 28 Mar 06 Posts: 820 Credit: 48,297 RAC: 0 |
For the record: Dr David Baker has posted at XtremeSystems Message Boards at other times. There is nothing nefarious about it. Simply stated: we invited him to post. To be more precise I, after consulting with my team's leadership, asked him to post whenever he felt like there was a need to post and to be available for some questions some of my team members had. At the time I invited Dr Baker, there were some issues that I thought he could address. Issues like: 1- How to deal with the issue of exagerated claims. 2- CASP 7. I thought his exlanation could help motivate the team , specially since there could be a natural let down after we reached the Rosetta top position, not only once but twice. He accepted the invitation, registered under his name and was granted the Board Tittle of "Dr Rosetta". (Those of you that have team boards , know about the Ranks and tittles). Nothing secret, nothing nefarious. All of his posts, can be seen and read and copied (as if all of you needed proof of that) . As a matter of fact in some of the early threads he started, several members of other teams participated and contributed with excellent comments. That is how David Baker "Dr Rosetta" came to post at the XtremeSystems Message Board. You know what I have found strange about the reaction to his posting? That only one team has asked and invited the Head Scientist and Developer of Rosetta to address the team and that only one team granted him posting privileges at that Teams MB. First of all: it is common courtesy. Second : It improves team communication with the project. Third: It allows for certain team concerns to be addressed in a way that doesnt interfere with the regular 'functioning of the Rosetta MB. IMHO: Rather than worrying about his posting at XtremeSystems what all teams should do is invite him to address your team and start bygranting him Message Boards posting Privileges. |
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Jose Send message Joined: 28 Mar 06 Posts: 820 Credit: 48,297 RAC: 0 |
Saenger - At the end of the day It is Ethans decision. He is a Mod, and an Admin - he sets the rules. or Semantics or Social Psychology , or Political Science. |
Fuzzy Hollynoodles Send message Joined: 7 Oct 05 Posts: 234 Credit: 15,020 RAC: 0 |
The following is from Kevint: Ethan, I doubt very much that Kevint has said that, it looks very much like what David Baker posted earlier in this thread. ;-) I'm sure Kevint can speak for himself. Of course David Baker can do what he wants, I and others can only take note of what he's doing and say here and on other boards. [b]"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me[/b] 
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Jose Send message Joined: 28 Mar 06 Posts: 820 Credit: 48,297 RAC: 0 |
The following is from Kevint: Fuzzy: Kevint's message is the second part of the post . So let me snip it so it can be clearer I'm sorry to have created even more problems in efforts to calm things down!! I understand your efforts in trying to calm things down and personally see nothing wrong with what you have done. |
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carl.h Send message Joined: 28 Dec 05 Posts: 555 Credit: 183,449 RAC: 0 |
Jose, we the Teddies when setting up our alternate Boinc forum stated we would like visits from staff but understood they were busy. We were told at that time the scientist`s were too busy to go round and check/post at everyones forum. Which was fine we were not aggrieved by that, it was an open invitation. We didn`t directly invite Dr. Baker formally, inviting a General to a Privates mess is not the done thing for us. Anyone was/is welcome to join our board, the only people so far to be banned are spammers. We are not everyones cup of tea and our rules are flimsy re off topic etc., and don`t expect space science from us, it isn`t really that serious a forum although in places...... We`re not worried David posted in XS but not Teddies, to be honest I doubt we`d have had much to say to him, we don`t do the science bit really but I`m sure one or two Teddies are up on it.We`re plain simple crunchers. I am disappointed that DR. Baker chose to inform XS of things which ALSO should have been posted here, it would have stopped a great deal of the squabbles. Howether he is a scientist and they are known for being socially inept, geeky and can never get the girl ;-) For those of you that have stayed the course, I haven`t, I think Dr.Baker & co., realise mistakes have been made and are trying to rectify them. So we can say that things are better than they were a week ago when you were all crunching away. He`s not going to be able to please everyone all of the time and to be honest imho he`s tried too hard already. He`s the head honcho of the organisation, he`s trying to implement changes to get an equilibrium that all are happy with, if you`re waiting around for a bravo juliet and a bunch of roses forget it, all he can do is try and it looks like he is. Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-) Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM. |
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Fuzzy Hollynoodles Send message Joined: 7 Oct 05 Posts: 234 Credit: 15,020 RAC: 0 |
I'm sorry to have created even more problems in efforts to calm things down!! David Baker, thanks for your input. :-) I'm sure you feel grateful for our contributions, which you have every reason to be. And believe me, we are all doing what we can to help out, and we all contribute with what we have, what we can, and what we and are able to do. Personally, I have one computer to crunch with, and I joined your project just a few days before it went public, so I was here back with the 1% problem, the stay in memory while preempted problem, you name it. I have reported all kinds of errors, in the beginning with mails to David Kim with the stdout files attached, when the WU's froze, and later on the board, latest the other day about a crashed WU with problems with the graphic. And I joined Ralph as soon it launched to help out over there, where I also have reported any kinds of errors and crashes. And right now I believe that my computer is used for the testings of the new creditsystem. I have participated actively on these boards. So I think I have been a very active participant in your project. Of course you can participate on the different teamboards with your input, and I will here invite you to come over on the BOINC Synergy board to post http://www.boincsynergy.com/forums/index.php. All you need is to sign up there. And I'll take the liberty and speak for Kevint also, even he's not here, to say the same about the SETI.USA board http://www.setiusa.net/phpBB2/index.php. Again, all you need is to sign up there. The problem here right now, which made me start this thread, is that you gave information on the XS board, which should have been posted here instead. The other problem, as I see it, is the optimized client, which you, after what I have read, have no problems with. It has been said here as long as I have around, when people have asked, that it wouldn't be necessary to use one, as the stock app should be optimized as much as it could be. So I was very surprised when I read that there is one after all, and it's apparently widespread used. Some say, they even use it over at Ralph. First, it shouldn't be allowed to use any kind of optimized applications at Ralph. I don't use my Chicken app at Seti Beta either. And second, if an optimized client is available for Rosetta, it should be available for all. I haven't seen where it can be downloaded from, so is it only available for some? And why don't you, since you approve the use of it, make it a part of the stock app here? Or integrate it into the stock app? Maybe you should consider to make a link to the optimized client here, so we all can decide if we want to use it or not? I would certainly use it. I'm not in this for the credit. But I certainly want the credit I can claim. I'm sorry to say, but it seems to me that you have a lot to mend here to reestablish the confidence from us, "the little guys". There are other projects out there, who will be more than gratefull for having our cycles, and even we are "the little guys", if you add up our processorpower, I think we have a substantial amount. Again, I'll look forward to see you on the BOINC Synergy board, I'll greet you in your wellcome thread, and I'll make a post on the SETI.USA board of what I have said here, and I'm sure they will greet you there too. [b]"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me[/b]
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Saenger Send message Joined: 19 Sep 05 Posts: 271 Credit: 824,883 RAC: 0 |
I agree with you, carl. Now that's something;) An invitation to any of the team boards is imho unnecessary, I can't think of a team that would not let him (or any other staffer) on it's board with greatest pleasure, that's self-evident. As the staffers usually have enough to do with their regular work, and there is an official place for comunication here, no other team probably even thought about an explicit invitation, the great input by the team here was already appreciated as more than standard. So this exclusive posting on one of the teams forum, one that was heavily involved in the current dispute, with the ambiguous remarks over small crunchers, and the offer to make one side of the flamewar mods was at least not recieved as a friendly act. I take it as an tactical error of someone not used to the "sociology of DC". If a better understanding of the working of a DC-community is a result of this, and the main communication channel will be again here in the future, it's just fine. |
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tralala Send message Joined: 8 Apr 06 Posts: 376 Credit: 581,806 RAC: 0 |
There seem to be a misunderstanding. There is no optimized Rosetta app and it is unlikely there will be one since optimizations turn out to be difficult for the Rosetta app. There is an optimized boinc app though, but optimized relates only to the fact that this boinc app claims more credits. It does not do more work and certainly does not speed up the rosetta app. So people who are using the standard boinc app and the optimized boinc app produce the same science. The optimized boinc app however has had its entitlement for certain users which I now don't want to explain so it was not forbidden and considerd okay to use. However this has sparked tensions all the time since it resulted in very different granted credit for the same work. The new credit system will correct this and grant credit based on the actual work done so that the use of a standard boinc client or an optimized one does no longer matter. |
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carl.h Send message Joined: 28 Dec 05 Posts: 555 Credit: 183,449 RAC: 0 |
Can I ask that this not be sidetracked into an opti / not thread, please ! Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-) Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM. |
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