Afternoon all,
Rom slapped together the latest boinc client in a way that it attaches to the project as a default user. The user's settings are set very conservatively, no battery, low virtual memory, 1 cpu max, etc.

It's a single process rather than installing boinc, creating an account, and then putting that info back into boinc.

I plan to email it out to all 5500 of our dorm residents in a couple weeks.

My question to everyone is. . what may I be missing before I email this out (with instructions on both the simple, and regular ways of installing)?

The only issue outstanding is the need to make the default user's account 'read only'. The account key is stored in plain text, so a user could log in as that account and set things really high, potentially impacting other users.

Anywho, and comments welcome. Thanks!

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That sounds like a great way to get more Rosetta crunching.

If I slip you $10 can you set it so they attach to my account?

Actually I do have something serious to add.

I assume you did this to harness all that computing power and to make it easy for people who don't understand computers too well but like the idea of helping out Rosetta.

However, what about the extra risks to laptops? Rosetta running on a laptop causes more heat problems than a desktop. A desktop just sits there and its fans are always going. But what about someone who runs your special Rosetta on a laptop? People often sit with their laptops on their bed in a dorm room and all the extra heat of the processor going 100% might cause damage to the laptop, pressed up against the mattress.

In other words, laptops running BOINC need to take extra heat precautions, something that your average undergraduate might not know about.

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The laptop thing is a good point. Is it currently addressed with the standard client, or do you mean since the 'simple' installer is geared toward non-techies they might not be as aware of the potential?

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The laptop thing is a good point. Is it currently addressed with the standard client, or do you mean since the 'simple' installer is geared toward non-techies they might not be as aware of the potential?

Yes, the simple client + college kids + laptop sitting on peoples' beds + 100% CPU usage = potential problem.

Regular BOINCers know to take special heat precautions with BOINC. College kids simply looking to help might break their laptop!

Nowadays it seems like most college kids have laptops, not desktops.

Do new laptops (face it, kids come with shiny new machines) have any type of heat protection? As in, if it hits a high temp, it will shut the machine down to protect the laptop.

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Do new laptops (face it, kids come with shiny new machines) have any type of heat protection? As in, if it hits a high temp, it will shut the machine down to protect the laptop.

I couldn't tell you.

I teach at the college level, though, and I know it's annoying when some kids take notes on laptops in class.

But that's kind of my point. Kids bring laptops to college to email and type papers. That doesn't create heat problems so they leave laptops on their beds in dorm rooms. Rosetta might create too much heat.

So... I don't know. I'm glad I pointed it out, though, so we can think about it.

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It's definately worth noting. . I'll include it in the email for both versions.

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I would welcome it if this simple Rosetta-Installer would be available for other teams/individuals as well. There was the idea of creating a CD whith an auto-installer etc. You might want to upload the simple installer so that people might try it out and report on the installation process.

edit: Is there no way to create each time a separate user to avoid the read-only necessity? Perhaps a random number or the computer name or something. That way each user would have a separate account and would be able to edit it later if he wants to.

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I would welcome it if this simple Rosetta-Installer would be available for other teams/individuals as well. There was the idea of creating a CD whith an auto-installer etc. You might want to upload the simple installer so that people might try it out and report on the installation process.

I'll post how to download it once the account is made read only.

Other versions could be made for teams to give out, but it would require having a version of installshield.

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Do new laptops (face it, kids come with shiny new machines) have any type of heat protection? As in, if it hits a high temp, it will shut the machine down to protect the laptop.

Yes, they do.

And I have crunched Rosetta and all my other projects on this computer, a Fujitsu-Siemens laptop, since July 2004. Before, when it stood directly on my desk, the temperature on the processor was 50 - 53 degrees Celsius, but after I bought a small wire rack for it to stand on for better air circulation, the processor temperature dropped about 3 degrees. And when I sit in my big chair with it, I'll have to keep the ventilationholes away from my legs, as it's too hot.

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[b]"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me[/b]

Ethan, laptops are well-protected against overheating. The 64 bit AMD processors use Power Now! controller drivers which change the multiplier to reduce processor speed and the processors will run at idle speed on batteries (800 MHz for a Mobile AMD Athlon 64 XP 3200+ for instance). I experienced no problems running Rosetta on a Mobile AMD Athlon 64 XP 3200+ machine for three months while my granddaughter was home for the summer. It is listed as "squishy" in my list of computers, but it won't be crunching while she is back in school. The Dell laptop listed under my name runs a fan control utility and the processor runs 48 to 50 C with it. (Discussion here: https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_thread.php?id=2130) Laptop processors are designed for higher temperatures and my Dell with an Intel P3m would not run either of the two CPU fans until the processor reaches 70 C without the fan utility.

There will be complaints about the laptops being hotter, and it is usually due to hard drive temperatures.

Look at it this way: If a computer can't handle running Rosetta@home, there is something wrong with the computer. Some will report crashes. That often is because they have corrupted drivers, usually video, or they need to update their drivers. If Windows XP users will visit Microsoft Update and do a Custom instead of Express installation, they can install their drivers without being computer experts. Running the project is an excellent way for students to learn about their computers, and there are many people here willing to help.

The downside of running laptops is that there are not frequent save points for Rosetta and they will "lose" work every time they shut down. If run as "Always on" in Power Options, then the computers will crunch if left turned on while on their desks under AC adapter power.

I have some laptop information written by Fluffy Chicken and others saved on another computer. I'll edit it to delete Find-a-Drug and post again. ;-)

Some (most?) laptops are protected against overheating, but not all.

The simplest suggestion is to use a cheap cookie cooling rack to raise the laptop so that there is airflow underneath it.

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BOINC WIKI

Afternoon all,
The user's settings are set very conservatively, no battery, low virtual memory, 1 cpu max, etc.

Set it to keep in memory OR run always. Both preferably. That way if they snooze it for a game, they don't lose back to their last checkpoint.

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This year was the first time I've had laptops overheating and shutting down while performing tasks (not 100% cpu usage tasks). And while they may be setup to protect themselves; if it's the bios that is shutting the system down (and not windows gracefully closing things down) file corruption issues arise.

(Both laptops had managed to suck up enough lint/hair/dust bunny material that it blocked the cooling fins of the heat sink and eliminated most of the air flow.)

The laptops were 1-2 years old.

So you may see a fair number of students having their laptops shut down frequently due to running the cpu at 100% - if they've been as bad about where they run their laptops as some of my clients.

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Ethan,

Instead of using a default account, isn't it possible to find a way to have a popup where he asks for a username and password?
So everyone has his own account for settings, stats etc.

In the beginning, these 'not so technical people' will install your special installer. They start crunching. But after some time, they discover this forum, they discover statistics, they may discover teams. After this they want to have their own statistics. Oke, then let them create a personal account. But after that, they will complain that they have crunched for xxx days/months/years and that they will have their previous credits on their new account...


Another thing: The installer, how will he be installed? As normal installation, or as service. If choosen for service, what about the username/password?

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Member of Dutch Power Cows

I think the simple installer's a great additional tool.

The laptop issue is important. My flatmate used to leave his work laptop on his duvet all the time - it got pretty hot without crunching.

A couple of points I'd make are that if a computer starts crashing because it can't handle 100% CPU utilisation then you're better off finding out about it ASAP rather than when you're trying to get some important work done and one of your apps is hitting 100% for a while.

Another point to be prepared for is that you'll probably get a few situations where someone's laptop has issues for unrelated issues and Rosetta gets blamed.

Could you get some computer-savvy undergrads to help out if/where needed?

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I would love to have a copy of the mail too if that's possible... I would offer to send you cash for a hard copy, but I live in Switzerland, I have no idea how long this would take to arrive.

Is there an electronic copy of your work available somewhere?

In my opinion, the CD should default to a given user (CD-user or something), but should give the option to either create an account or use an existing one. This way, you can just burn the exec. to a business-card CD and either install boinc on new hosts easily, or just use it as a hand out piece of advertisement.

I would definately like to have a copy of this... just let me know the most convenient way for you.

- trib'

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Does it include any more customisation (Since they added that feature quite a while back) Like Rosetta@Home branding etc. I was created so projects could create thier own download like BBC Climate Change Experiment.

Rom, of course, knows all about it :-)

Maybe you caould alter the Boinc tray icon to be the Rosetta icon.




As for the idea about more flexible accounts, that's simple, just add at the end that if they want to know more, would like greated flexibility, thier own account or already run boinc software then goto Rosetta and find out more. (But it would be nice if you join Housing & Food services https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/create_account_form.php?teamid=2 team so we know how well this is working )..


You get the idea.



Another thing to remember.
PROXY
I know most universities have to got through a proxy (and I assume you'll already know from the Catalyst and H&F setups) don't forget to put that presetup in the simple install.

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Team mauisun.org

...The only issue outstanding is the need to make the default user's account 'read only'. The account key is stored in plain text, so a user could log in as that account and set things really high, potentially impacting other users.

It was one of my first wishes for BOINC to have two keys for each account, one "crunch-only" key and one that is allowed to do setup.

The important part is that it is required to block any changes made in global_prefs.xml and the project preferences as well as those are propagated to all projects.

The idea has been supported by other crunchers but it has not been implemented :-/