Folks, there are four issues here.

1) People with "history", from places other than Rosetta, such as 'person x' and I. I won't even give the
name, or the project, because it's irrelevant. _I_ have not let a single word said here be any different
than I would for someone I'd never dealt with before. I'll continue to call him an idiot on the other board.

2) People who have an issue with me, or some other individual, because of some posting, and are
extrapolating that to somehow to be related to "the project" rather than a private matter.

3) People who are automatically assuming that anyone in "their team" is right.

4) People who are downright rude and demanding. "Do it my way or I'll take my PC and go home."

If any of the above four things is something _you_ are guilty of, then please think about it. BOINC isn't
a sport, Rosetta isn't a stadium. The "competition" aspects of all of this are supposed to be _fun_, and to
attract participants. Most of the people here answering questions are volunteers, NOT part of the project
staff. There is a "Cafe" where you can blast me, or BOINC, or the project, all you want - NC isn't the place
for it. And certainly not random question-answering threads where someone is trying to get help.

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A note - I have deleted the two postings from River that were moved here from the other thread because of the "stretching", since this has become a discussion thread, and the stretching is a problem. The unformatted data is still in the other thread, and if the formatted version is needed, I or any other moderator can "undelete" the postings and get it.

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Folks, there are four issues here.

1) People with "history", from places other than Rosetta, such as 'person x' and I. I won't even give the
name, or the project, because it's irrelevant. _I_ have not let a single word said here be any different
than I would for someone I'd never dealt with before. I'll continue to call him an idiot on the other board.

2) People who have an issue with me, or some other individual, because of some posting, and are
extrapolating that to somehow to be related to "the project" rather than a private matter.

3) People who are automatically assuming that anyone in "their team" is right.

4) People who are downright rude and demanding. "Do it my way or I'll take my PC and go home."

If any of the above four things is something _you_ are guilty of, then please think about it. BOINC isn't
a sport, Rosetta isn't a stadium. The "competition" aspects of all of this are supposed to be _fun_, and to
attract participants. Most of the people here answering questions are volunteers, NOT part of the project
staff. There is a "Cafe" where you can blast me, or BOINC, or the project, all you want - NC isn't the place
for it. And certainly not random question-answering threads where someone is trying to get help.

My post is directed squarely at you for your lack of tact as a moderator.

I and my team have nothing against Rosetta as a project, or any of the principals involved.

laurenu2 made some simple, non-confrontational statements in the "Report stuck workunits here"

I have been getting WU's that the time clock just stops and takes a reboot to get it going again I have had to reboot over 100 systems in the past 2 days

and

My points per day is 1/2 what it is on a norm. I guess I should just shut down my network till you can solve this problem. As I have little time to babysit your client with the holly days here or just change to another project

No attacks on anybody - simply statements of his farm's crunching status based on the BOINC metric of points, and his planned work-arounds until the problem could be fixed. I would do the same thing - suspend the project, and attach elsewhere.

There is no way that should have generated the response it did from a moderator.

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Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :)



"You can't fix stupid" (Ron White)

i noticed all the complaints come from one team. I think this is way out of hand. And BTW INMHO i detect a little attitude in this statement. I have seen Bill help in many situation's but trying to trouble shoot a problem with little or no information. Keep up the good work all you volunteers out there. (Including Bill) and thanks for all of your help. BTW definition of Volunteer


1.)To perform or offer to perform a service of one's own free will.
2.)To do charitable or helpful work without pay:

This is a quote from the inital post not mine.
"My points per day is 1/2 what it is on a norm. I guess I should just shut down my network till you can solve this problem. As I have little time to babysit your client with the holly days here or just change to another project"

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I and my team have nothing against Rosetta as a project, or any of the principals involved.

laurenu2 made some simple, non-confrontational statements in the "Report stuck workunits here"

I have been getting WU's that the time clock just stops and takes a reboot to get it going again I have had to reboot over 100 systems in the past 2 days

Which in the end turnde out to be ME cients which aren't supported by this project. So what's yours (and his') point, other than not hearing, aka reading the obvious?

My points per day is 1/2 what it is on a norm. I guess I should just shut down my network till you can solve this problem. As I have little time to babysit your client with the holly days here or just change to another project

No attacks on anybody - simply statements of his farm's crunching status based on the BOINC metric of points, and his planned work-arounds until the problem could be fixed. I would do the same thing - suspend the project, and attach elsewhere.

No attacks? Really?? No, a threat to leave isn't an attack ... duh.
I *do* care for the project I'm crunching for, if you or anyone else from FreeDC have doubts about this project ... there are many other projects, go for it I'd say. We'll miss you (your power), but we won't (your unbiased critisism).
Peace.

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And you aren't attacking Free-DC now ?

Even a little?

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Free-DC

Stats for all projects

Custom Stats

OK folks, if you aren't a member of a team, don't use that other team's name. This is NOT the Cafe.

I _WILL_ start deleting posts that get "personal", and that includes team-related.

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Folks, there are four issues here.

1) People with "history", from places other than Rosetta, such as 'person x' and I. I won't even give the
name, or the project, because it's irrelevant. _I_ have not let a single word said here be any different
than I would for someone I'd never dealt with before. I'll continue to call him an idiot on the other board.

2) People who have an issue with me, or some other individual, because of some posting, and are
extrapolating that to somehow to be related to "the project" rather than a private matter.

3) People who are automatically assuming that anyone in "their team" is right.

4) People who are downright rude and demanding. "Do it my way or I'll take my PC and go home."

If any of the above four things is something _you_ are guilty of, then please think about it. BOINC isn't
a sport, Rosetta isn't a stadium. The "competition" aspects of all of this are supposed to be _fun_, and to
attract participants. Most of the people here answering questions are volunteers, NOT part of the project
staff. There is a "Cafe" where you can blast me, or BOINC, or the project, all you want - NC isn't the place
for it. And certainly not random question-answering threads where someone is trying to get help.

You have my vote.....

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BOINC Wiki

I declare up front that I am neutral with regards to the rhetoric in this thread. I can understand both points of view. I make this declaration because I don't want anyone to misconstrue what I'm about to write as just another "attack"; if you feel attacked then blame it on my poor writing skills but no attack is intended.

First, Rosetta is a good project with good objectives and good personnel. It needs people like you to do the science and help mankind (sounds noble and it is). Whatever ill will exists between teams or individuals should not be allowed to impact the goals and needs of the project. Translation: keep on crunching while agreeing to disagree.

Second, until a few days ago this project and the personnel running it were amongst the best in the DC community. True, the last few days have been a nightmare (relatively speaking). And I think the project team has learned a valuable lesson. Bickering is counter-productive. Please pitch in and support the science and try not to let personalities get in the way.

I ask Bill and other volunteers to be more "sensitive", and implore those who are asking questions to not be so thin-skinned. End of speech.
(edit spelling)

I declare up front that I am neutral with regards to the rhetoric in this thread. I can understand both points of view. I make this declaration because I don't want anyone to misconstrue what I'm about to write as just another "attack"; if you feel attacked then blame it on my poor writing skills but no attack is intended.

First, Rosetta is a good project with good objectives and good personnel. It needs people like you to do the science and help mankind (sounds noble and it is). Whatever ill will exists between teams or individuals should not be allowed to impact the goals and needs of the project. Translation: keep on crunching while agreeing to disagree.

Second, until a few days ago this project and the personnel running it were amongst the best in the DC community. True, the last few days have been a nightmare (relatively speaking). And I think the project team has learned a valuable lesson. Bickering is counter-productive. Please pitch in and support the science and try not to let personalities get in the way.

I ask Bill and other volunteers to be more "sensitive", and implore those who are asking questions to not be so thin-skinned. End of speech.
(edit spelling)

DITTO,I feel the same way.

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That's not exactly a fix.

No, it isn't.

It *IS* an appropriate and responsible solution to the immediate problem.

I will bet that you did not schedule a lot of work over the holidays ... we have to remember that the project people are just that sometimes ... people I mean ... they need time off too ...

Only on TV can problems be solved in 30 minutes (well, 20) ... the real world takes longer ... :)

A sarcastic response is appropriate and responsible? I was not replying on my behalf but on the thread starter's behalf. I have my account set for 10 days (or whatever the maximum is) and I have the same issues others have.

That's not exactly a fix.

No, it isn't. It's a temporary workaround to avoid wasting a participant's resources.

And?

And what?

The suggestion was "if you are on dial-up, you should probably suspend Rosetta until after the holidays, when they can get the problem solved". This is because of the ratio of download time to crunching time; dial-up people are spending too high a percentage of their time on non-productive work.

And for those of us who are not on dialup but on a 4mb cable pipe - same solution?

If a moderator wants to throw his/her weight around and condoning the usage of sarcasm as an appropriate answer for a temporary fix of a problem, then I see no reason as to find appropriate help in these message boards. The "well if you don't want to then find something else" attitude is not a healthy setting for this project. I don't care how many years young or old this project is, if the problems cannot be adequately handled by means of proper customer service (as we are donating our computers to this - therefore a method of payment in means of labor) then I see no reason to continue. These actions are childish and unbecoming of staff for a project.

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One more time to attempt to clear up some misconceptions...

NO credit has been lost due to the "DEFAULT_xxxxx_205" WUs. The project staff has said that when they return from the holidays, and those WUs have been flushed through the system or killed off, they will grant credit for them. See the quote below.

"Sarcasm" in a typed message is hard to detect. Anyone who feels they can detect it 100% of the time based on words on a page, without the additional information provided by tone of voice, facial expression, etc., should reevaluate their abilities.

These actions are childish and unbecoming of staff for a project.

I haven't seen _any_ responses in this thread from any member of "staff for a project", other than the following:

The random number seed issue should be resolved by now. There is still a 7% chance of getting a bad seed but this is no different than previous runs weeks before. When I and others get back from holiday break, we will fix it completely and grant credit to those affected by the recent issues.

I see nothing "childish and unbecoming" in that. If you MISTAKENLY believe that _I_ am project "staff", I believe you should do a bit more investigating. Like click on my profile, or read any of my many other postings explaining that I am a participant just as you are. I have the _spare_time_ at present to be able to volunteer that time to the project not only in answering questions, as many others do, but also in moving and deleting threads and postings to keep the _boards_ running smoothly. To be able to do that, I have the "forum moderator" tag. That means exactly what it _says_. It does _not_ say "project administrator" or "project staff". I have no more control over the actions of the _project_ than you do.

One of your teammates was frustrated by the problems. I gave a VALID answer, as a fellow volunteer participant. You said "that's not a fix". I agreed, it's only a workaround. Paul gave the same answer (which interestingly enough, I had not seen - we were typing at the same time). One of your other teammates went off the deep end, another participant made an inappropriate comment, some _other_ moderator stepped in and deleted the "flamewar" posts (including one of mine), and now you're back, offended over imaginary slights to you or your teammates, seeing Paul's and my answers as being "sarcastic".

Personally, I think you and a couple of others understand full well what the situation really is, but are using the fact that I have this "tag" in an attempt to force the project to do things "your way". I'm an "easy target", because I don't give a flip, and won't back down and bend over to irrational demands, or apologize for some imaginary offense someone chooses to take over something I've said - where in an attempt to keep heavily-contributing users happy, the project staff _might_ do something in an attempt to appease. Pushing them to "fire" me would stroke your ego, or whatever. I really don't care, if they want to do that, it won't bother me. It also won't stop me from replying on the boards in any way that I see fit.

I'm a member of a team, Team MacAddict, just because I see no reason for my credits to _not_ go to some team. I don't care at all about any of the "competition" aspects of the credit system, or who belongs to which team, and I'm certainly not going to "pick on" the members of some particular team, whether I have an issue with some _other_ member of that team or not. I don't even _look_ at team membership, unless it becomes an obvious issue, as it has in this thread, which seems to be moving towards "your team" against everybody else.

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"Sarcasm" in a typed message is hard to detect. Anyone who feels they can detect it 100% of the time based on words on a page, without the additional information provided by tone of voice, facial expression, etc., should reevaluate their abilities.

That was an example of "childish."

I see nothing "childish and unbecoming" in that. If you MISTAKENLY believe that _I_ am project "staff", I believe you should do a bit more investigating. Like click on my profile, or read any of my many other postings explaining that I am a participant just as you are. I have the _spare_time_ at present to be able to volunteer that time to the project not only in answering questions, as many others do, but also in moving and deleting threads and postings to keep the _boards_ running smoothly. To be able to do that, I have the "forum moderator" tag. That means exactly what it _says_. It does _not_ say "project administrator" or "project staff". I have no more control over the actions of the _project_ than you do.

The last time I checked, this is a Rosetta Project and the title under your name reads "Forum moderator." If I am wrong, please correct me. I never insinuated you worked for BOINC or Rosetta, but this IS a project and you ARE a moderator in this forum, correct?

One of your other teammates went off the deep end, another participant made an inappropriate comment, some _other_ moderator stepped in and deleted the "flamewar" posts (including one of mine), and now you're back, offended over imaginary slights to you or your teammates, seeing Paul's and my answers as being "sarcastic".

As a moderator, you should not have put yourself in a position to get your post deleted. I never said I was offended, which I believe was an assumption not made on my behalf. I quoted was I was referring to and it had only to do with what I was referring to.

Personally, I think you and a couple of others understand full well what the situation really is, but are using the fact that I have this "tag" in an attempt to force the project to do things "your way". I'm an "easy target", because I don't give a flip, and won't back down and bend over to irrational demands, or apologize for some imaginary offense someone chooses to take over something I've said - where in an attempt to keep heavily-contributing users happy, the project staff _might_ do something in an attempt to appease. Pushing them to "fire" me would stroke your ego, or whatever. I really don't care, if they want to do that, it won't bother me. It also won't stop me from replying on the boards in any way that I see fit.

Personally I don't care about "my way" or whether or not you are an "easy target." This isn't about that. It has nothing to do with one's ego and whether or not you should or should not get "fired." I have no idea where any of these assumptions and allegations came from but they (as you might reread) did NOT come from me. Why you would react to this extent of something that is less trivial than it is made out to be is beyond me. However, I have read other responses you gave to other members in other threads regarding different issues and your demeanor is the same as it is in here - unwarranted.

I'm a member of a team, Team MacAddict, just because I see no reason for my credits to _not_ go to some team. I don't care at all about any of the "competition" aspects of the credit system, or who belongs to which team, and I'm certainly not going to "pick on" the members of some particular team, whether I have an issue with some _other_ member of that team or not. I don't even _look_ at team membership, unless it becomes an obvious issue, as it has in this thread, which seems to be moving towards "your team" against everybody else.

No one accused you of being against "my team," did they? This is yet another assumption made. It appears by your judgement you have passed on me, you are bringing in issues that I am not aware of. There is nothing wrong with your team, and more power to you. My issue was with what was with the responses given to another member of this project, whether or not he and I share the same team.

If you have no further contributions to the thread, then please do not attempt to degrade or flame their members of something such as.

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...If a moderator wants to throw his/her weight around and condoning the usage of sarcasm as an appropriate answer for a temporary fix of a problem, then I see no reason as to find appropriate help in these message boards.

I believe you stated this opinion before, yet you continue to reinforce it. One thrust of your sword is sufficient, you needn't keep on jabbing. I, for one, am losing my patience with having to read through msg threads and squandering a lot of my time to "overlook" all the complaining and whining, most all of which is counter productive. You've made your point, as have a few others.

...The "well if you don't want to then find something else" attitude is not a healthy setting for this project. I don't care how many years young or old this project is, if the problems cannot be adequately handled by means of proper customer service (as we are donating our computers to this - therefore a method of payment in means of labor) then I see no reason to continue.

Certainly a project has a paramount obligation to provide the best DC environment they can given their respective resources. If you sign up for that project then you have to take it AS IS and encourage the staff to improve. In Rosetta's case, humpty-dumpty fell and the staff just have to put the pieces back together again. Until then we sit and wait quietly.

These actions are childish and unbecoming of staff for a project.

Look in the mirror. You keep ignoring what Bill has repeatedly stated: He is not Rosetta staff and doesn't represent the Rosetta project. His opinions and attitude are his own (sarcasm and all); you too have your opinions and attitude which the rest of us must muddle through. I accept you (and Bill) as you are, but enough already!

Certainly a project has a paramount obligation to provide the best DC environment they can given their respective resources. If you sign up for that project then you have to take it AS IS and encourage the staff to improve. In Rosetta's case, humpty-dumpty fell and the staff just have to put the pieces back together again. Until then we sit and wait quietly.

I can respect this.

You keep ignoring what Bill has repeatedly stated: He is not Rosetta staff and doesn't represent the Rosetta project. His opinions and attitude are his own (sarcasm and all); you too have your opinions and attitude which the rest of us must muddle through. I accept you (and Bill) as you are, but enough already!

Perhaps we wrote close enough that you didn't see my clarification.

From previous post:
The last time I checked, this is a Rosetta Project and the title under your name reads "Forum moderator." If I am wrong, please correct me. I never insinuated you worked for BOINC or Rosetta, but this IS a project and you ARE a moderator in this forum, correct?

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..... then I see no reason to continue. These actions are childish and unbecoming of staff for a project.

Here we go again, usual childish responce.....do things my way or I will throw my teddy in the corner and sulk! Grow up little boy!

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One final comment on the matter. I have already asked that the "moderator" tag be removed from my name. I am, and will continue to be, a stubborn, opinionated, sarcastic S.O.B. whenever the circumstances warrant. I don't care in the least who has a problem with that, but some people are inventing a non-existent "because of the tag, it reflects on the project". Well, frankly, BULLSHIT. But since I have no wish to have the project harmed in any way that someone _could_ tie back, however inaccurately, to me, I've asked David to remove that ability from my account. I assume he can't do this until after the holidays, so you'll just have to deal with it until then.

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One final comment on the matter. I have already asked that the "moderator" tag be removed from my name. I am, and will continue to be, a stubborn, opinionated, sarcastic S.O.B. whenever the circumstances warrant. I don't care in the least who has a problem with that, but some people are inventing a non-existent "because of the tag, it reflects on the project". Well, frankly, BULLSHIT. But since I have no wish to have the project harmed in any way that someone _could_ tie back, however inaccurately, to me, I've asked David to remove that ability from my account. I assume he can't do this until after the holidays, so you'll just have to deal with it until then.

NO no, Bill do not let that SOB get to you, you are doing a great job, but if you got to, I can respect that....... I have big problem with these yahoos who think they are a customer, and everyone is suppose to jump and bend over backwards to meet their demands, you will be missed in your OFFICIAL capacity ;O), but I know you will be around.......

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BOINC Wiki

NO no, Bill do not let that SOB get to you, you are doing a great job, but if you got to, I can respect that.......

The problem is that the controversy itself is preventing me from correctly doing _either_ job. I can't "moderate" anything without being accused of doing so for "personal" reasons, and I can't reply to messages without being accused of "throwing my weight as a moderator around".

Removing the tag from this account will allow me to say anything I would normally say, with no chance of it "reflecting on the project". And believe me, I've bitten my tongue a couple of times. They can get someone else to do the moderating, or I can do so under a different account, it doesn't matter which. There is already at least one "mystery moderator" around, someone known to the project, but _I_ don't know who it is, and they've _never_ posted that I can tell...

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Here we go again, usual childish responce.....do things my way or I will throw my teddy in the corner and sulk! Grow up little boy!

lol

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